injector duty cycle

struk · Message par **struk** » mar. juin 01, 2004 6:58 pm

Est-ce que cette table fait du sens ou bien je suis dans le champ ?

http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/dutycycle1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

steph z-24 · Message par **steph z-24** » mar. juin 01, 2004 9:51 pm

je sais pas mais apres avoir fait une couple de test preliminaire avec mon vpsm, je monte souvent en haut de 85% duty cycle et ce avec un set up completement stock. donc monter le boost sans changer les injecteurs c kamikaze

Menoche · Message par **Menoche** » mar. juin 01, 2004 10:38 pm

tu montes en HAUT de 85% avec un setup stock???????

j'montais jamais en haut de 75 juste avec le système d'échappement!! :-S

Rick Hunter · Message par **Rick Hunter** » mer. juin 02, 2004 12:16 am

Stock WRX runs its 440cc injectors static (100%) at ~6500+ rpm. A wrx with uppipe, turboback & 16 psi dropping to 12 psi at 7000 rpm runs its injectors static at 5700+ rpm. Anyone running a bigger turbo and stock injectors will be running lean = boom.

btw, I'm selling my 550cc STi injectors (new), anyone want em?

Banzai of Saigon · mer. juin 02, 2004 10:22 am

Rick,

Are you sure about that? 100% @ 6500 RPM on a stock WRX?

That would mean that the Subaru Engineers didn't gave themselves any layway at all? That would seem careless...

Rick Hunter · Message par **Rick Hunter** » mer. juin 02, 2004 1:55 pm

Yah, they really don't give themselves much room. Of course, the stock wrx runs pig rich, so the net effect is that you're still in a "safe" AFR region. Same thing goes for the STi unfortunately, 520cc injectors are pretty small for the EJ257. All goes down to tuning it well

When I was tuning my stage 2 setup (stock turbo up/downpipe), my AFRs were running around 11.1-2:1 at redline (injectors were running static). Was pulling 4.2 volts through the maf sensor. Quite a bit on the stock turbo.

samh22a · Message par **samh22a** » mer. juin 02, 2004 9:59 pm

yep, I know my injectors are going static quite easily. And I still don't even have an exhaust.

It's a good thing I'm still pig rich !

Sam

Menoche · Message par **Menoche** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 1:07 pm

minute les boyz... ya 2 choses differentes ici...

si vous rouler a 100$ en closed loop, ya un probleme!!!

en open loop, c'est normal d'etre a 100% l'ECU envoie le plus de gaz possible...

struk · Message par **struk** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 3:17 pm

Comment on fait pour savoir si on est en open loop ou close loop

steph z-24 · Message par **steph z-24** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 4:45 pm

Menoche a écrit :minute les boyz... ya 2 choses differentes ici...

si vous rouler a 100$ en closed loop, ya un probleme!!!

en open loop, c'est normal d'etre a 100% l'ECU envoie le plus de gaz possible...

si tout ce gaz est pas necessaire c pas normal, si l'ecu envoie tout ce gaz ca doit etre ce qu'il considere necessaire, de plus c normal que en closed loop tu n' aie pas plus que genre 40% duty cycle peut etre moin car des que le tps passe un certain pourcentage tu tombe open loop

samh22a · Message par **samh22a** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 6:04 pm

c'est pas normal d'etre a 100% en open loop. Ca veut dire que nos injecteurs sont trop petit.

Ou qu'on est ben trop riche

Sam

samh22a · Message par **samh22a** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 6:06 pm

Si je me rappele bien.. l'ecu des 2002-03 change a open loop lorsqu'une des 2 conditions suivante est vrai.

- plus que 60% de TPS ( Throttle position sensor)
- Plus que 5500 RPM

Sam

Rick Hunter · Message par **Rick Hunter** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 6:09 pm

A wrx runs in closed loop up to 63% throttle position and/or ~4500 rpm (which ever comes first).
In closed loop operation, the ECU monitors the front Oxygen sensor to maintain rougly 14.7:1 air fuel ratio by controlling the injector duty cycle time (how long the injectors open).
In open loop, the ECU ignores the front oxygen sensor for determining the AFR and uses its either of its two available fuel/ignition maps (Hi det or low det depending on the knock correction value - ecutek ppl can explain this in greater detail).
The injector duty cycle time in open loop will go up as rpm increases until it hits 100%. At that point, the fuel system can not flow anymore fuel. The only way to increase the amount of fuel would be to increase the fuel pressure (That's how it's typically done on RS turbo kits - install a rising rate fuel pressure riser) or get larger injectors.

Here's a log of my Stage 2 going static at only 11 psi ~6500 rpm:

Code : Tout sélectionner

 RPM  BOOST MAF TPS LOAD  KNOCK AFR  STOCK   IDC  UTEC   %MOD BOOST  MOD  AFR
                    SITE             TIMING       TIMING  MAF SITE   MAF
 3095  -6.9 2.3   9  00    00   W/B  +36.0   11.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.58 
 3083  -7.1 2.3   9  00    00   W/B  +35.7   10.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.74 
 3147  -6.9 2.3   9  00    00   W/B  +35.7   10.3 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.70 
 3106  -6.9 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +35.6   10.5 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.2  14.61 
 3138  -6.9 2.3   9  00    00   W/B  +35.5   11.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.58 
 3100  -6.7 2.3   9  00    00   W/B  +35.5   10.4 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.58 
 3103  -6.9 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +35.1    8.9 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.61 
 3447  -6.9 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +36.7   10.6 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.2  14.74 
 3800  -7.3 1.6   0  00    00   W/B  +40.4    5.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   1.3  14.65 
 3635  -9.1 1.5   0  00    00   W/B  +42.1    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   1.6  14.42 
 3584 -10.2 1.8   3  00    00   W/B  +41.1    6.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   1.9  13.28 
 3862 -11.6 2.0   5  00    00   W/B  +41.6    6.6 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.0  13.02 
 4323 -11.8 2.1   5  00    00   W/B  +27.0    9.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.1  14.08 
 4219 -11.4 2.2   6  00    00   W/B  +41.6    8.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.2  14.70 
 4230 -11.0 2.2   7  00    00   W/B  +41.7   11.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.   2.3  14.74 
 4290  -9.6 3.0  39  10    00   W/B  +33.0   34.2 +20.8  +0.4 156.00 3.1  14.61 
 4363  -6.9 3.3 103  10    00   W/B  +19.6   49.6 +21.0  +0.5 315.00 3.4  14.74 
 4432  -2.8 3.7 101  20    00   W/B  +17.4   68.9 +20.9  +0.5 315.00 3.8  13.45 
 4486  +3.3 3.9 102  50    00   W/B  +13.7   81.5 +21.4  +1.4 315.00 3.9  11.92 
 4629  +8.0 3.9 101  70    00   W/B  +14.3   81.5 +19.6  +1.5 315.00 4.0  11.30 
 4748 +11.7 3.9 102  80    00   W/B  +15.5   86.9 +19.8  +1.4 310.00 4.0  11.05 
 4873 +13.7 4.0 101  80    00   W/B  +15.4   83.9 +20.4  +0.7 310.00 4.0  10.80 
 4880 +13.7 4.0 101  70    00   W/B  +16.7   82.6 +21.8  -0.5 305.00 3.9  10.73 
 5020 +14.1 4.0 101  80    00   W/B  +16.3   87.1 +22.0  -0.4 305.00 4.0  10.67 
 5167 +14.3 4.0 101  80    00   W/B  +16.9   89.0 +22.0  -0.4 305.00 4.0  10.71 
 5249 +14.5 4.0 101  80    00   W/B  +17.9   93.2 +22.0  -0.4 305.00 4.0  10.80 
 5299 +14.1 4.0 101  70    00   W/B  +17.9   96.3 +23.0  -0.5 300.00 4.0  10.78 
 5428 +13.5 4.1 101  70    00   W/B  +18.1   97.0 +23.0  -0.5 300.00 4.1  10.68 
 5500 +13.3 4.1 101  80    00   W/B  +19.3   97.6 +22.0  -0.4 300.00 4.1  10.65 
 5527 +12.9 4.1 101  70    00   W/B  +19.6   94.4 +23.0  -0.6 285.00 4.1  10.59 
 5688 +13.5 4.1 101  70    00   W/B  +19.6   95.5 +23.0  -0.6 285.00 4.1  10.53 
 5757 +13.3 4.1 101  70    00   W/B  +21.5   95.1 +23.0  -0.6 285.00 4.1  10.56 
 5910 +13.1 4.1 101  70    00   W/B  +21.9   97.0 +23.3  -0.5 270.00 4.1  10.64 
 5920 +12.5 4.1 102  60    00   W/B  +22.2   97.7 +23.8  -0.8 260.00 4.1  10.56 
 5984 +12.1 4.1 101  60    00   W/B  +22.2   99.5 +24.0  -0.8 260.00 4.1  10.49 
 6060 +11.3 4.1 101  60    00   W/B  +20.5   97.6 +24.0  -0.8 260.00 4.1  10.46 
 6172 +11.0 4.1 101  60    00   W/B  +21.0  ---.- +24.0  -0.8 260.00 4.1  10.43 
 6253 +10.8 4.2 102  60    00   W/B  +23.2   99.3 +24.0  -0.9 250.00 4.1  10.48 
 6410 +11.0 4.2 101  60    00   W/B  +24.8   97.1 +24.1  -0.9 250.00 4.1  10.46 
 6373 +10.8 4.1 101  60    00   W/B  +24.9   99.5 +24.3  -0.9 250.00 4.1  10.45 
 6397 +11.0 4.2 101  60    00   W/B  +24.9  ---.- +24.7  -0.9 250.00 4.1  10.42 
 6485 +11.7 4.1 101  70    00   W/B  +26.2  ---.- +24.6  -0.8 250.00 4.1  10.49 
 6485 +11.3 4.2 100  60    00   W/B  +26.6   98.6 +25.0  -0.9 LCM.   3.5  10.53 
 6325  +7.4 1.9   0  00    00   W/B  +10.8    9.2 ECU.   +0.7 LCM.   1.9  10.45 
 5889  +1.3 2.1   0  00    00   W/B  +10.8   11.6 ECU.   +0.5 LCM.   2.1  12.30 
 5411  -4.9 2.1   0  00    00   W/B  +11.2   11.4 ECU.   +0.0 LCM.   2.1  19.16

IDC = Injector Duty Cycle %
---.- means static

On the UTEC, you can control when the ecu goes into open loop fueling for better part throttle performance. In my case, I set it at 30% TPS. I'm pretty sure the ecutek can do the same.

This looks better (injectors not going static at 17 psi)

Code : Tout sélectionner

 4125 -11.6 1.9   2  00    00   W/B  +41.8    5.2 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   1.8  14.58 
 4156 -11.6 2.0   3  00    00   W/B  +41.2    5.4 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   1.8  14.65 
 4140 -11.6 2.0   4  00    00   W/B  +41.5    8.3 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   1.9  14.61 
 4105 -11.4 2.1   6  00    00   W/B  +41.8    7.0 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.65 
 4120 -11.0 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +42.0    9.5 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.87 
 4120 -10.4 2.2   7  00    00   W/B  +41.9    9.1 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.92 
 4156  -9.8 2.2   8  00    00   W/B  +42.0    9.0 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.65 
 4130  -9.6 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +41.8    8.9 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.49 
 4125  -9.4 2.4  10  00    00   W/B  +41.8   26.1 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.2  14.53 
 4135  -8.1 2.8  22  00    00   W/B  +38.8   15.5 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.5  14.61 
 4203  -6.7 3.0  31  10    00   W/B  +37.0   25.3 +19.9  +0.0 ECU.   2.8  14.74 
 4246  -4.0 3.3 103  10    00   W/B  +32.1   30.7 +20.2  -0.1 250.00 3.0  13.95 
 4345  -1.0 3.4 103  20    00   W/B  +30.5   34.0 +19.3  -0.1 250.00 3.1  12.75 
 4385  +1.9 3.5 101  30    00   W/B  +25.5   44.8 +19.8  +1.1 250.00 3.3  12.02 
 4547  +5.1 3.9 103  40    00   W/B  +18.2   53.3 +20.4  +1.5 250.00 3.5  11.58 
 4559  +8.2 4.0 101  60    00   W/B  +18.7   63.4 +20.6  +2.3 250.00 3.7  11.23 
 4741 +10.8 4.0 102  70    00   W/B  +19.4   69.7 +19.8  +2.0 250.00 3.7  10.90 
 4901 +13.7 4.0 102  80    00   W/B  +21.6   71.4 +20.6  +1.8 250.00 3.7  10.64 
 5027 +15.9 4.2 102  90    00   W/B  +22.3   73.7 +22.1  +0.9 250.00 3.8  10.49 
 5120 +17.8 4.2 101  90    00   W/B  +21.3   75.6 +22.6  +1.1 250.00 3.8  10.55 
 5249 +19.2 4.2 101 100    00   W/B  +22.2   75.9 +22.0  +1.1 250.00 3.8  10.62 
 5324 +19.8 4.2 101 100    00   W/B  +23.1   79.7 +22.0  +1.2 250.00 3.8  10.64 
 5402 +18.8 4.3 101  90    00   W/B  +23.6   79.8 +23.0  +1.0 250.00 3.9  10.67 
 5546 +18.4 4.3 101  80    00   W/B  +23.7   83.2 +23.0  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.68 
 5767 +17.6 4.3 101  80    00   W/B  +24.4   83.9 +23.0  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.71 
 5777 +16.8 4.3 102  80    00   W/B  +25.5   84.5 +23.1  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.74 
 5920 +17.8 4.3 102  90    00   W/B  +25.2   85.8 +23.6  +1.1 250.00 4.0  10.86 
 6006 +17.8 4.3 102  90    00   W/B  +25.9   86.7 +24.0  +1.2 250.00 4.0  10.86 
 6082 +18.0 4.4 101  90    00   W/B  +25.4   87.8 +24.0  +1.1 250.00 4.0  10.76 
 6184 +17.6 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +25.7   90.6 +24.0  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.71 
 6337 +17.2 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +28.2   88.0 +24.0  +0.7 250.00 4.0  10.65 
 6397 +17.2 4.4 102  80    00   W/B  +28.5   88.7 +24.0  +0.8 250.00 4.0  10.71 
 6535 +16.4 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +29.2   91.4 +24.0  +0.7 250.00 4.0  10.73 
 6574 +17.0 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +29.3   89.2 +24.1  +0.6 250.00 4.0  10.67 
 6361 +14.5 2.6   0  00    00   W/B  +10.7   10.6 ECU.   -1.0 LCM.   1.7  10.64 
 5920  +7.8 2.1   0  00    00   W/B  +10.9    9.3 ECU.   -1.0 LCM.   1.9  11.87

struk · Message par **struk** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 6:27 pm

Rick Hunter a écrit :On the UTEC, you can control when the ecu goes into open loop fueling for better part throttle performance. In my case, I set it at 30% TPS. I'm pretty sure the ecutek can do the same.

This looks better (injectors not going static at 17 psi)

Code : Tout sélectionner

 4125 -11.6 1.9   2  00    00   W/B  +41.8    5.2 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   1.8  14.58 
 4156 -11.6 2.0   3  00    00   W/B  +41.2    5.4 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   1.8  14.65 
 4140 -11.6 2.0   4  00    00   W/B  +41.5    8.3 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   1.9  14.61 
 4105 -11.4 2.1   6  00    00   W/B  +41.8    7.0 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.65 
 4120 -11.0 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +42.0    9.5 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.87 
 4120 -10.4 2.2   7  00    00   W/B  +41.9    9.1 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.92 
 4156  -9.8 2.2   8  00    00   W/B  +42.0    9.0 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.65 
 4130  -9.6 2.3   8  00    00   W/B  +41.8    8.9 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.0  14.49 
 4125  -9.4 2.4  10  00    00   W/B  +41.8   26.1 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.2  14.53 
 4135  -8.1 2.8  22  00    00   W/B  +38.8   15.5 ECU.   -1.0 ECU.   2.5  14.61 
 4203  -6.7 3.0  31  10    00   W/B  +37.0   25.3 +19.9  +0.0 ECU.   2.8  14.74 
 4246  -4.0 3.3 103  10    00   W/B  +32.1   30.7 +20.2  -0.1 250.00 3.0  13.95 
 4345  -1.0 3.4 103  20    00   W/B  +30.5   34.0 +19.3  -0.1 250.00 3.1  12.75 
 4385  +1.9 3.5 101  30    00   W/B  +25.5   44.8 +19.8  +1.1 250.00 3.3  12.02 
 4547  +5.1 3.9 103  40    00   W/B  +18.2   53.3 +20.4  +1.5 250.00 3.5  11.58 
 4559  +8.2 4.0 101  60    00   W/B  +18.7   63.4 +20.6  +2.3 250.00 3.7  11.23 
 4741 +10.8 4.0 102  70    00   W/B  +19.4   69.7 +19.8  +2.0 250.00 3.7  10.90 
 4901 +13.7 4.0 102  80    00   W/B  +21.6   71.4 +20.6  +1.8 250.00 3.7  10.64 
 5027 +15.9 4.2 102  90    00   W/B  +22.3   73.7 +22.1  +0.9 250.00 3.8  10.49 
 5120 +17.8 4.2 101  90    00   W/B  +21.3   75.6 +22.6  +1.1 250.00 3.8  10.55 
 5249 +19.2 4.2 101 100    00   W/B  +22.2   75.9 +22.0  +1.1 250.00 3.8  10.62 
 5324 +19.8 4.2 101 100    00   W/B  +23.1   79.7 +22.0  +1.2 250.00 3.8  10.64 
 5402 +18.8 4.3 101  90    00   W/B  +23.6   79.8 +23.0  +1.0 250.00 3.9  10.67 
 5546 +18.4 4.3 101  80    00   W/B  +23.7   83.2 +23.0  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.68 
 5767 +17.6 4.3 101  80    00   W/B  +24.4   83.9 +23.0  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.71 
 5777 +16.8 4.3 102  80    00   W/B  +25.5   84.5 +23.1  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.74 
 5920 +17.8 4.3 102  90    00   W/B  +25.2   85.8 +23.6  +1.1 250.00 4.0  10.86 
 6006 +17.8 4.3 102  90    00   W/B  +25.9   86.7 +24.0  +1.2 250.00 4.0  10.86 
 6082 +18.0 4.4 101  90    00   W/B  +25.4   87.8 +24.0  +1.1 250.00 4.0  10.76 
 6184 +17.6 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +25.7   90.6 +24.0  +1.1 250.00 3.9  10.71 
 6337 +17.2 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +28.2   88.0 +24.0  +0.7 250.00 4.0  10.65 
 6397 +17.2 4.4 102  80    00   W/B  +28.5   88.7 +24.0  +0.8 250.00 4.0  10.71 
 6535 +16.4 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +29.2   91.4 +24.0  +0.7 250.00 4.0  10.73 
 6574 +17.0 4.4 101  80    00   W/B  +29.3   89.2 +24.1  +0.6 250.00 4.0  10.67 
 6361 +14.5 2.6   0  00    00   W/B  +10.7   10.6 ECU.   -1.0 LCM.   1.7  10.64 
 5920  +7.8 2.1   0  00    00   W/B  +10.9    9.3 ECU.   -1.0 LCM.   1.9  11.87

Here your injectors are not stock ?

Rick Hunter · Message par **Rick Hunter** » jeu. juin 03, 2004 10:17 pm

oops, yeah on the 2nd log, those are Ultimate Racing 600cc injectors with an Ion stage 3 turbo.